House Boat Repower with Mercruiser Small V8 Engines
Rich,
That makes a little more sense now. We were all just floored here that you had that many hours on the engines. As I mentioned previously the typical life expectancy varies with the duty cycle and location of operation; for example light usage versus commercial and salt water versus fresh water. Also another thing to consider regarding the duty cycle is the rpm the engines are operated at for their life expectancy. I would almost bet in your case that the engines very rarely get run at full throttle or even above 4,000 rpm for that matter. I can tell you from having been an engineering manager at Mercruiser for several years that anything over 2000 hours is considered a lot. Generally speaking we rarely see engines with anything over 2000 hours, except in extraordinary circumstances. I am extremely surprised you’ve been able to see these quantities of hours on this boat being that so many different operators are involved. So to sum it up for you;
Normal Mid Life Expectancy: 800 – 1,000 Hours
Extreme Life Expectancy: 2,000 – 2,500 Hours
Regards
Performance Product Technologies/IShopBoating
8002 West 6th Street
Stillwater, OK 74074
(405) 533-3812
Fax (775) 257-1769
[email protected]
www.perfprotech.com
From: Rich
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 1:27 PM
To: PPT – Marine Engines & Parts
Subject: Re: Product Lead Question: New GM Longblock – 5.7L Vortec, 295hp, 1996-current Carb w/o crank position sensor (#2541-S)
ONE LAST CORRECTION/CLARIFICATION: I said previously, “Our current / failed starboard engine had 3734 hours and port has 3967.” However I misspoke the hours of the engine.
The clock records total hours to date which includes the hours on the previous engine. My “computerized” engine logs go back to 2004 and I had to take a look at the dusty records in my garage. So I have reevaluated the total hours of the engines and broke them out:
OEM Eng#1 Port-2038.1 Star-2234.0
Current Eng#2 Port-1929.7 Star-1500.4
So I can now say my current Bravo engine that failed last June due to overheating had 1500.4 hours on that specific engine. Our houseboat is on Lake Powell in Utah. It is winterized from Dec-Mar every year. Yes we do keep up on the maintenance. However it does take a beating with 15-17 co-owners doing their week long warrior vacations every year!
So one last time if you would please opin, Typical life expectancy for my current starboard engine, is 1500 hours mid-life or old in your opinion?
And now that I have broken my hours down it seems to me that my clocks are not sycn’ed. The port engine clock is either faster than the starboard, or we don’t use the starboard engine as much! But note we ran the boat all this year with just the port. So having the redundancy of dual engines is nice at bad times like now.
Thanks again for all your help. When I talk with my co-owners in Dec I will be able to lay all our options out on the table for us to make a decision. And once that decision is made they have to open up their pocket books! Have a nice T-day.
-rich
________________________________________
From: PPT – Marine Engines & Parts <[email protected]>
To: Rich
Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 7:58:35 AM
Subject: RE: Product Lead Question: New GM Longblock – 5.7L Vortec, 295hp, 1996-current Carb w/o crank position sensor (#2541-S)
Rick,
Not really, the main reason I brought it up was that some customers just don’t want to go from MPI to carbureted. In the long run if you decide to go with the 350 engine the Par Pac will be the best option since it includes the upgrade components that would need to be upgraded anyway. The 5.0L and 5.7L use slightly different fuel and spark systems to account for the difference in engine displacement. Therefore if you purchased a new or remanufactured 350 longblock you would still need to change out the ignition module, carburetor, fuel pump, etc. The Par Pac being created to allow customers this preconfigured upgrade path is priced out more aggressively than trying to piece it all together yourself. I think the main issue for your group to decide is whether you want to tackle both engines at the same time versus individually. Knowing how many hours you have on both engines, and realizing it costs more to replace the engines individually versus doing them at the same time, I would recommend changing them out together.
Thanks and Have a Great Holiday!
Performance Product Technologies/IShopBoating
8002 West 6th Street
Stillwater, OK 74074
(405) 533-3812
Fax (775) 257-1769
[email protected]
www.perfprotech.com
From: Rich
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:06 PM
To: PPT – Marine Engines & Parts
Subject: Re: Product Lead Question: New GM Longblock – 5.7L Vortec, 295hp, 1996-current Carb w/o crank position sensor (#2541-S)
Andy, I’m sorry but I just realized I misspoke originally so I want to make sure we are on the same page still.
We have a 1996 houseboat with two MerCruiser 5.0L EFI installed in 2000, not MPI. Does that imply that my preferable option to repower is to go with a PowPac- Merc 350 since I have EFI already on my 5.0L? Thanks.
-rich
PS-I checked out your Facebook site and “like” it. I will leave a wall post soon. Cheers.
________________________________________
From: Rich
To: PPT – Marine Engines & Parts [email protected]
Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 4:05:17 PM
Subject: Re: Product Lead Question: New GM Longblock – 5.7L Vortec, 295hp, 1996-current Carb w/o crank position sensor (#2541-S)
Thank Andy for your quick and clarifying answers. I’ll be back in touch next month.
-rich
________________________________________
From: PPT – Marine Engines & Parts <[email protected]>
To: Rich
Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 3:24:11 PM
Subject: RE: Product Lead Question: New GM Longblock – 5.7L Vortec, 295hp, 1996-current Carb w/o crank position sensor (#2541-S)
Rich,
1. Typical life expectancy varies with the duty cycle and location of operation; for example light usage versus commercial and salt water versus fresh water. I can tell you from having been an engineering manager at Mercruiser for several years that anything over 2000 hours is considered a lot. We currently have a 2004 model 350 MPI engine with 2578 hours and everyone was really impressed that it reached this amount. In your case I would say this indicates you operate in a “friendly” environment, you do not run the engine hard, and you keep up with the required maintenance. Rgarding how the boat is used effecting the life expectancy this boat with 2578 hours on the motor was replaced in March and failed the CPO engine at 248 hours. However the customer had the boat severely over propped with the new motor which failed it pre-maturely.
2. Both of these options are NEW engines
3. As for comparison you really need to try comparing like this;
a. Change out the single longblock be it with a new or remanufactured product. This keeps things the same with your twin engine boat.
b. If you want to upgrade in power then we need to look at doing both engines at the same time and you could go with the New ParPac although you would lose your MPI system for this higher Hp carbureted version. Or you could go with the New EFI Power Package. Or you could go with a CPO complete Bobtail engine. See links below
Terminology
http://tinyurl.com/37567t5
CPO 357 Mag Alpha Model
http://tinyurl.com/yd9o95a
Regards
Performance Product Technologies/IShopBoating
8002 West 6th Street
Stillwater, OK 74074
(405) 533-3812
Fax (775) 257-1769
[email protected]
www.perfprotech.com
From: Rich
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 4:29 PM
To: PPT – Marine Engines & Parts
Subject: Re: Product Lead Question: New GM Longblock – 5.7L Vortec, 295hp, 1996-current Carb w/o crank position sensor (#2541-S)
Hello Andy,
Thank you for the quick and comprehensive reply. I have some follow up questions for you.
1. I’ve noticed the trend over the years and I wasn’t sure if it was the case however you validated my view that re-manufactured (i.e. Certified Pre-Owned) engines have comparable performance / life span outlooks but with the addition of the extended warranty of two years on the re manufactured option does promote it over a new engine. So I would favor this option too. Our current / failed starboard engine had 3734 hours and port has 3967. Both were replaced previously with new engines in 2000. I’m not totally sure if I have to replace the port engine when I do the starboard engine. In your opinion what is the typical outlook for a engine like our in hours? I’m not sure if 4000 hours (or 10 years) is mid-life or nearing end of life. However I would tend to think it is mid-life. Which would imply I leave the port engine as it is for now.
2. I understand the upgrade issue of 5.0 to 5.7L now and I did not previously know that I would have a problem with the electronics and fuel systems. It is not clear to me after reviewing the links you provided of the PowPac-Merc 350 or the GM Power Package – 5.7L, 300hp, (#57LPARPAC) if they are NEW or CPO. However the #57LPARPAC has “New” in its title so that may answer that engine’s pedigree.
3. Also the GM Power Package – 5.7L, 300hp, (#57LPARPAC) includes fuel and ignition components it states. You said that my existing electronics and fuel systems would be a problem so I needed to replace them. However the price for this package is less expensive than the other PowPac Merc 350 by approx $2000 so that does not make sense to me. Can you clarify my certain misunderstanding.
I am meeting with my partners of the houseboat in two weeks so I want to make sure I understand the options and have some reasonable cost estimates of the various replacement or upgrade options. Thank you again. Cheers,
-rich
________________________________________
From: PPT – Marine Engines & Parts <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 6:55:04 AM
Subject: RE: Product Lead Question: New GM Longblock – 5.7L Vortec, 295hp, 1996-current Carb w/o crank position sensor (#2541-S)
Rich,
Thanks for your inquiry and the opportunity at earning your business. Honestly the new and reman engines have just about the exact same durability projection these days when you compare a factory remanufactured and not a local rebuild. On 5.0 and 5.7 engines 1996 or newer we almost always sell the new engines versus the remanufactured simply due to the fact that the pricing on the new engines has come down so much over the past 5 years. However the new engine just have a 12 month warranty versus 24 month on the remanufactured. The reason being the remanufactured engines need a marketing advatange against the new engines. Regarding the 5.0 versus 5.7 you have two issues to deal with. Since the boat is equipped with twin engines you would have to change out both at the same time if you decided to go with the 5.7L. The other issue being that your engine is an MPI model and therefore the electronics and fuel system will not carry over from the 5.0L to the 5.7L. If you wanted to upgrade to the 5.7L the power package option would be the most cost effective. If you just want to correct the failed motor the best option would be a new 5.0L longblock. You can add your selected product(s) to your shopping cart and the shipping estimator located at the bottom of the shopping cart page will give you a shipping cost based on your specific postal code. Let me know if you need any further technical information or help placing your order. In either case I will be glad to assist!
Power Package Options
http://tinyurl.com/26uux79
New Longblock
http://tinyurl.com/3x7g3hn
Performance Product Technologies/IShopBoating
8002 West 6th Street
Stillwater, OK 74074
(405) 533-3812
Fax (775) 257-1769
[email protected]
www.perfprotech.com
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 6:08 AM
To: PPT – Marine Engines & Parts
Subject: Product Lead Question: New GM Longblock – 5.7L Vortec, 295hp, 1996-current Carb w/o crank position sensor (#2541-S)
Rich writes:
I have a 1996 houseboat with two MerCruiser 5.0L MPI installed in 2000. One has failed and we are considering either a new 5.0 or upgrading to a 5.7L MPI. Any suggestions? Also is there any specifications or historical data for expected life span hours of either a new vs rebuilt 5.0L or 5.7L options.
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